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Talk:Danny's ghostly powers
I don't think this article is an appropriate place to discuss other ghosts' powers, even where those powers overlap with Danny's. Information on other ghosts' powers should be contained in their articles. And then perhaps the end of each section in this article could say something like "See also: Vlad Masters, Pariah Dark, Vortex." I'm also iffy on the use bullet points for the bulk of the content... they work in some sections of the article, but other sections really do not need to be formatted like a list. Perhaps with some reorganizing and rewriting, the bullet-point format could be mostly eliminated from this article. ---Zukogray 20:02, March 31, 2010 (UTC) >As someone whom assists many other Wikia databases, I suggest that the information on Danny Phantoms abilities should be kept within the character page and not seperately because this can lead to confusion (even if there is a hyperlink within the page). Mrcrabs9 20:27, April 4, 2010 (UTC) : That does make sense. I do think it's useful info, but I question if this level of detail is necessary; moving the content to Danny's article would definitely be a reason to cut it down. As things are right now, this article is a longer page than Danny's page, which seems illogical to me. ---Zukogray 01:16, April 5, 2010 (UTC) Since there are now a few more users on here, I would like to renew this discussion if possible. Four courses of action that could improve this article (these are not mutually exclusive): *Removing info on other ghosts' powers in the manner I described above *Reducing or eliminating the use of bullet points (which are not typically used to organize an entire article) *Shortening the article overall *Shortening the article and relocating the remaining content to the Danny Phantom (character) page My personal opinion is that this article contains too much detail and really needs to be shortened considerably. I'm also in favor of the first two items above. The final item makes sense to me as well. It's not so much that the quality is bad, but super-long articles are generally discouraged, and as I said above, it seems kinda ridiculous to me that this article is longer than Danny's. Idea: for the major abilities at least, why not give them their own articles, which could contain a higher level of detail and which could also contain the information on how other ghosts used the abilities? So the Danny Phantom character article would still contain some info on his powers, but it would say "See also: Intangibility, Transformation, etc etc." Or simply contain wikilinks to those articles. I'm willing to work on rearranging and rewriting, but I did want to see what others thought first, if possible. ---Zukogray 21:41, June 1, 2010 (UTC) : I'm in favor of giving the basic ghost powers (intangibility, ghost rays, etc.) their own articles and moving the detailed info on powers that are more unique to Danny (cryokinesis, wail) onto his article like we do for all the other ghosts. In addition maybe a page called something like "Basic ghost powers" that has very basic (i.e. not like this page) info on the powers and links to the main articles. The main reason to create such a page is that I know many of the ghosts' pages say something like "The Box Ghost has the basic ghost powers and the ability to control boxes" and it would be easier to link to that page than each individual power's page. : But I would also support all four of your bullets, especially the first two. J~ 22:06, June 1, 2010 (UTC) :: Makes sense! I'll start with the basic powers and play it by ear for the others (depending on amount of info and whether it covers other ghosts) as to whether they get their own articles. The "Basic ghost powers" idea makes sense too; we could do that, or in the articles that use that phrase, just add parentheses after "basic ghost powers" listing the powers with wikilinks. Either should work. ---Zukogray 03:30, June 5, 2010 (UTC) :::I'm glad to see you've started working on this, and I'll start helping out soon. And as for your idea to have the basic powers listed and linked to in each article: :::*Pros: 1)It is obvious what the basic powers are so a reader wouldn't have to click the link to find out 2)similarly, the link to each power's page is right there and a reader doesn't have to click through another page :::*Cons: 1)More text on the page to read through (and it's blue text too, which draws attention around all the black text) 2)most people who have watched the show know what the basic powers are, so they'd likely skip over the extra text anyway 3)anyone who does not know what the basic ghost powers are would probably want to know more about the powers than just what their names are (especially with the powers people may not be familiar with. Sure, we could get away with invisibility and flying, but probably not with ghost rays or overshadowing) so a separate page with all of them briefly described could get a reader up to date without reading through several pages filled with detailed explanations, lists of everyone who has used the power and when, trivia, and whatever else will find its way onto the page. :::So personally I would recommend the Basic Ghost Powers page. (Note that many pages say (or perhaps should) something like this, which comes from Lydia's page: "Lydia can fly and turn intangible, and she most likely possesses the other standard ghost powers." In these cases flight and intangibility would of course be linked to their own pages, while "standard ghost powers" would link to its page.) But that's just my two cents. -J~ 01:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::Just wanted to make a slight correction to something you said in the Cons: if we continue creating ghost power pages in the manner I've begun, there will be a "General Description" section near the top of each page that will allow a visitor to quickly gain a basic understanding of the power, eliminating the need to read the rest of the page unless they really want to. Regardless of whether we do the page you're wanting to do (which is still fine with me), I think it makes sense to have a section like that at the top of each ghost power page. My only small concern with the page you want to make is that there are different "wiki-philosophies" and some would view that as an extra step between point A and point B. I realize it is more than that, that it does fulfill the function of grouping relevant, concise info--but some people may be turned off by the fact that they can't go directly to the each individual power's page (since everything is about speed in our modern age). Since this wiki has only a skeleton community, it's very hard to gauge an overall community style. Which actually gives us more creative freedom, and is why I'm ok with either. Unless we suddenly get a million responses expressing preference for one over the other, lol! ---Zukogray 04:12, June 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yes, the "General Description" section would help fix that problems, and maybe this is just me, but I know that when I go to a wiki page to learn about something like this, I'll usually end up reading the entire thing. But even if that part of that con isn't really valid, I think the rest of it still is. And I understand the "extra step" problem, I kinda mentioned it in my list of pros. Another possible solution I just thought of would be to create a template for the ghost powers. It would allow a reader to easily go from one power to another and to see what they all are, though it obviously wouldn't give any information. This could of course be used in addition to whatever else we decide to do. -J~ 19:57, June 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Ahh yes, sorry, I missed that in the Pros, don't know where my brain is!! Oy! :D And yep, I wasn't trying to invalidate your Cons, but I just wanted sure we were on the same page. Hmm, the template might be a good idea... I mean, there's the catogory I made for ghost powers, but the template would have a lot more flexibility and be visible on the page. Certainly worth considering. ::::::So, I have an idea of what the basic powers would be, but since I don't always have a reliable memory, I wondered, what would you list them as? ---Zukogray 21:01, June 6, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Yeah I know you're not trying to invalidate them, I more meant that the rest of that particular point was still valid-that someone who didn't know what the powers were would likely want to know more about them. :::::::As for the basic powers, definitely invisibility, intangibility, flying/hovering, and overshadowing. I think that ghost rays are probably a basic power, but only a few ghosts are actually using them (though there are some similar powers that could just be variations, like Ember's various guitar attacks). The other iffy one is strength/speed/endurance/the rest of that section. A few do show it, but while many don't I can't think of anytime any ghosts specifically showed a lack of it. And it's rather hard to judge whether a ghost is stronger now than it was when is was alive. And as for the durability/recovery part of that section, I think it's really more cartoon physics than it is ghost powers. :::::::So I'd say invisibility, intangibility, flying/hovering, overshadowing, and ghost rays are mostly the basic ghost powers.-J~ 22:34, June 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Yeah, the strength etc section is iffy, I agree... I feel like it should probably just go in Danny's character article, rather than getting its own article. ::::::::Do you think Transformation should get its own article? To me, it seems like that section is a bit on the trivial side. Still, I guess it could probably fill up a fair-size article, especially if people wanted to add more info on Dani and Vlad. So I'm not sure what to do with that section. ::::::::I'm also unsure what to do with Invisibility--while it is a basic power, it's not a very long section. I suppose maybe it could get its own article and be expanded in the future...? ::::::::As for Ecto-Physical Mass Manipulation, while most ghosts use some sort of shape-shifting abilities from time to time, I feel like there's such variety in this area that there shouldn't be an overarching article covering all such instances. ::::::::I feel like Ghost Shield is another one that could go either way. If memory serves, it's really only used by a few ghosts--I mainly recall it used by Danny and Vlad. But perhaps I'm forgetting some instances in which it was used. ::::::::Since the Ghostly Wail is only used by two people, I don't think it needs its own article. I mean, I don't think it'd be bad for it to have its own article, since it does play a significant role, but I don't think it needs it. ::::::::Duplication is another one that doesn't seem to need its own article, since (I think) it's only used by Danny, Dark Danny, Vlad, and Kwan while infected. It could, but I'm not sure it needs to. ::::::::I'm a little ambivalent on cryokinesis--Frostbite uses it as well as Danny, and it may be that all of Frostbite's subjects use it as well. Plus, if it got its own article, Ghost Sense could go in that article, since it's an extension of cryokinetic powers. (And Ghost Sense is used by Danny, Dark Danny, Dani, and Paulina when infected.) But cryokinesis and ghost sense could just go in Danny's article (and the articles of whoever else uses them). *shrug* I kinda like the idea of giving Cryokinesis its own article and putting the info on Ghost Sense in that article, but either way's ok. ::::::::As for Weather Manipulation, I honestly don't think that even needs to go in Danny's article, since we're trying to keep from making that section too big. It's only around for one episode, and my opinion is that info on that ability should be confined to the episode article, since the ability is so temporary. ::::::::Telekinesis I really don't know what to do with. :D Since so many ghosts use it in some form (or we assume they can), I suppose it could have its own article, but I feel like it's not necessary. ::::::::One last thing--I'm trying to decide what to call the ghost rays article, and I was thinking maybe Energy Blasts (since a "blast" sounds a little more like a weapon than a "ray"). Or I suppose Ghost Blasts could work--I just thought Energy Blasts was a bit more descriptive. But really, I'm flexible. ::::::::Whew that was long... So when you get a chance, any input on the stuff above is welcome! ---Zukogray 05:25, June 19, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::You know, we probably could make articles for all of Danny's powers (ignoring weather manipulation, which is little more than trivia). The ghostly wail and cryokinesis do especially seem like they could be important enough for their own articles. I could also see transformation getting its own article, maybe just fixing up and expanding Going Ghost (which is hardly an article as it is). And if cryokinesis gets an article, the ghost sense stuff should definitely go in there. :::::::::Ecto physical mass manipulation doesn't seem important enough for its own article to me. :::::::::As for the shield, transformation, and duplications, they seem like they could potentially be standard powers (well, probably not transformation) that we just never see anyone use. But from what we actually see (and unless I'm forgetting someone), these powers seem to be unique to Danny, Dark Danny, Dani (who are all essentially the same person, so they should have all the same powers), and Vlad, so it could be that these powers are related to the similar way in which Danny and Vlad got their powers or the fact that they are only half ghosts. :::::::::Ghost blasts just doesn't sound right to me. Energy blasts sounds like it could cover the blasts from all the guns in the show as well as the ghosts' attacks (side note: are the guns' and the ghosts' blasts actually related somehow? Maybe they both use ecto-energy or something? Just speculation I guess), while ghost ray sounds like it refers specifically to the ghosts' attacks, so that's what I would prefer. But I would say to go with whatever they call them in the show, whatever that is. :::::::::And finally, I don't think an article on telekinesis is necessary. It works differently for each ghost, each one only being able to use it on certain objects, so it's almost like a completely different power for each ghost. -J~ 02:06, June 20, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::Ok, thanks for the input! I'm fine with most of the powers getting their own articles, as you described (and agree about Weather Manipulation and Ecto-physical Mass Manipulation). Good idea on fixing up Going Ghost. ::::::::::It does seem like some of those powers are associated with the half-ghosts and Dark Danny, I agree. Were you suggesting they should not get individual articles, or were you just observing? ::::::::::Hm, well, the article says "Most ghosts (including Vlad) simply refer to them as 'blasts,' though Danny does refer to them as 'ghost rays' in 'Reign Storm' and 'Claw of the Wild.'" But you have a point about Energy Blasts being ambiguous. I guess Ghost Rays should be ok then. (In regard to the side note, I don't really know how similar those are to gun blasts, but I tend to assume they both use ecto-energy. *shrug*) ---Zukogray 04:44, June 20, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::::Ghost Rays it is then. And I was not implying that they shouldn't get their own articles, it was just an observation. -J~ 03:01, June 21, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::::I would also welcome input on the naming of the ghost shield article. When I hear "ghost shield", I generally think of the Fenton Ghost Shield. We could call the article "Ghost Shield (ghost power)" or "Ectoplasmic Energy Shield" or "Ectoplasmic Shield"... or I'm open to other ideas... ---Zukogray 23:59, August 2, 2010 (UTC)